Unbound with Chris DuBois

On today's episode how walking across scouting out goals and broken glass can bring your team closer together. Are you leader trying to get more from your business in life? Me too. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Right Welcome to unbound. Today I am joined by Dave Albin who is the number one firewalk instructor in America. And if that doesn't capture your attention, its clients include Google, NASA, Notre Dame Heineken Chick fil A and many more. He has worked with Tony Robbins for over 19 years and started firewalk productions. He and Tony set a world record in London back in 2005, walking over 12,300 people over hot coals. And so I know I am fascinated to learn more about this and how organizations can can use things like fireworks, right to strengthen the culture of their organization. And so Dave, I'm very excited to have you on today. Thanks, Chris. That was a mouthful. Have you read that? It's like, okay, that's a wrap. See you next week, right? Yeah. So I think the best place to start is really with your origin story. And just learning more about you. Yeah, sure. Well, again, thanks, Chris. I appreciate you bringing me on your podcast. You do good work out there, my friend. Well, you know, it started young, obviously, right. I was I was born to a single mom. I was born in Hollywood, California. And a couple of months before I was born, my biological father, who was a pilot in Korea, he had hurt himself somehow, and we don't really know what happened. All we know is a put a plate in his head to save his life. Well, it also took us like, two months before I was born, he was constantly complaining about the pain that he was going through. And he turned to my mom one day and said, Hey, I'm going to the grocery store we never saw or heard from him again. So that put my mom in a really difficult position. She had two other boys. And we all live together with my grandmother in a one bedroom apartment, including a cousin of mine, so it was a little crowded. But by the time I was five, what happened was is that she knew she couldn't take care of me anymore. So she did a very loving thing. And she put me up for adoption. And her sister, which would have been my aunt and uncle adopted me. So at five years old, I left Hollywood was a Long Beach lived with them. My adoptive parents, my dad was a military officer in the army and the National Guard. He was highly decorated in World War Two. And that was the lifestyle. So from the time I was five to 11, things were awesome. Everything was fantastic. We went camping, we did things together. It was really, really wonderful. And then on the first day of summer and 1964, they sat me down that morning and said, Hey, we need to talk with you. And they sat me down at the at the kitchen table and my mom put her hand on my hand and I'll never forget the look in her eyes with tears coming down her face. She said, David, what we need to tell you is we are not your parents. Well, you know, what are you? I'm 11. What does that mean? How do you process that as 11 year old you really don't. Shortly after that, they both started drinking. They have sworn off alcohol at five when they adopted me. Now, we were coming out of the Bay of Pigs then Right? Kennedy had just been assassinated in November in 63. This is the summer of 64. So my dad was pretty stressed out. And when they started drinking, everything changed. Man, my life took a really hard turn. And to just move all of that forward, right. I mean, I got kicked out of high school, I started doing drugs, I was hanging around the wrong people, you know, you are who we spend time with. And so things progressively got worse, worse, worse and worse. And then in June, and I got married, like three times to three different women. And in on June 8 of 1988. When I woke up that morning, I said that's it, we're done. I'm out. I can't do this anymore. I was in excruciating, physical and emotional and spiritual pain. So my idea was to stop the pain, put a bullet in your head. And of course, you know, I wrestled with that, obviously, because I had three kids, they were my step kids. And I thought, man, if you do that, not only you're killing those kids, too. They're the ones that have to have to live with that and pick up the pieces and you know, the media and it's going to permeate through school. I mean, what all what a horrible thing to do to them. So, the next thought I had was we'll call Alcoholics Anonymous. And you know what's interesting about that thought, Chris is that is I think back I had, I don't I had no reference on who he was. And never, I've never gotten to a meeting I didn't know anybody was named. And I didn't know who he was, except there was the thought call Alcoholics Anonymous. And I did. And they sent a man to come pick me up. He took me to three meetings that day and stayed with me. And I had enough AAA in my head to go home that night and not take a drink. Now I'm coming off alcohol, cocaine, and, and heroin. So you can only imagine. Couple rough days. We were we, yeah, Davey boy here was in for, you know, a rough several months, actually. Because I definitely wanted to use every day for months. But for some reason, man, I hung in there. And the reason I hung in there is because the men and alcoholics and I went to an all men's group, and I stayed there. And those guys just embraced me. They grabbed ahold of me, they knew I told them, I put a gun in my mouth that morning. And so they knew I was serious. And they watched and hovered over me, and just took amazing care of me. You know, one of the things in AAA, that's beautiful, that I love is a creed for me. And that is, it says in the writings when anyone anywhere reaches out, I want the hand of a to be there. And for that I am responsible. Well, those men took that real serious F. And so they saved me, you know, I got through it one day at a time, you know, a day turned to a week, a week to a month. And then when I got to a month, they gave me a medallion. They said, You know, one month of continuous sobriety. And I got one to two months, three months, six months, nine months in one year. Well, while I was going through this recovery and Alcoholics Anonymous, I had insomnia. So my sleep patterns were all they were all over the place. Right. And one morning, I woke up early in the morning, couldn't sleep and turned on the television and dairy was Mr. infomercial himself. Gun three gmefi rancor selling personal power for Tony Robbins. Right. And it was, it was a 30 day program. It was for total total successes, how they sold it. And and when they sent it to me it came on these little white things called cassette tapes. And I plugged it in, I did what Tony taught me to do, and it worked. And so what happened from there as I loaned my program to a buddy of mine. And seven years later, after he'd gone through it. He called me on the phone and told me that Tony was coming to town. And did I want to go and I'm like, Yeah, sure, I'd love to go. And so he goes great. I'll make the arrangements. Well, he calls me back an hour later and he goes done. We pick up the tickets, and we'll call, here's what they told us to do. Number one, bring snacks, you're going to spend a lot of time in the room. What an understatement. That is. Drink a lot of water, stay hydrated, bring a good attitude, and then be ready to play full out. Nice Dan, how much was the ticket? He said $700. This is a 1995. Right? So what's that equate to today? Seven grand, something like that? I don't know. Yeah, a couple million. 2.3 million, right. And so just as he's getting ready to get off the phone, he goes, Oh, by the way, we're going to be doing all firewalk. And I remember thinking I'm not saying anything, but I'm thinking Oh, hell no. You're out of your mind. I am not going to do a firewall. That ain't happening. But I'm not telling Dan that right. And you know, I'm just kind of agreeing. Yeah, sure. Daniel firewall. Yeah. Sounds great. All right, man. I'll see you then. But when he hung up the phone, I'm like, No, that's a hard No, for me. I'm definitely not doing that. And you know, it was interesting, Chris, I was saying no to something. And I didn't even know what a firewalk was. I didn't know what that meant. I had no references for that. But fear is taking over. And it's making that decision for me that it's a no. Well, so the big day comes. And we get to the event we check in Tony takes the stage at two o'clock in the afternoon. Well, the next thing we know, it's after midnight. I've been in a room for 10 hours. Good thing we brought snacks. And so you're in there, and it's after midnight. And also Tony goes, take your shoes off. And I'm like, Oh no, I don't think so Pao. I'm not falling for that one. Well, I'm in a room with 3500 people, right? And they're all taking their shoes off. And I'm like, No, you guys don't follow up on it. Right? Well, so now I have a dilemma. Do I take my shoes off or not? Right? Because if I don't, then everybody walking out there is gonna see me with my shoes. They're gonna know I'm a coward. And we can't have that. So I'm like, Well, don't worry about it. Just take your shoes off. And when you get out there, don't worry about it. Just go hide in the back. No one's gonna know. And so that's my strategy. Well, it gets worse. When Tony Scott, you're walking out there he gets everybody that chanting and clapping. Right. So they're all clapping going? Yes, yes, yes. And they're kind of walking out their unit All right. Well, it gets even worse. When you get outside. Tony's got African drummers. And so it's dun dun, dun, dun, dun dun. And everybody's clapping. Yes, yes. And it's set the ambiance like nothing you've ever seen or experienced, right? Imagine. Yeah, that's crazy, man. It really is nuts. Well, over in the corner, they've got this giant fire that has been burning all day. And that pit though they built it's probably 30 feet wide, 70 feet long. And they do nothing but add wood to it all day. Well, after 10 hours or so it just renders. And you have this big, giant, beautiful pile of gold. Well to logistically set this up for 3500 people, they would take a wheelbarrow over to that pit, they would load that wheelbarrow, they bring it in between two lanes of saw the fire lane, which is about three feet wide, 18 feet long. And so what they did, they just took a flathead shovel, and they sprinkled those coals on top of that grass. And that's what you walked on? Well, as I said earlier, I'm having none of it. I'm hiding in the back, right? And I'm like, this will be cool. Nobody's going to know. Well, here's the interesting part, Tony brought firewalking to the, to the west, because he knew he researched that is literally one of the most powerful experiences any human can go through. And so he knows he wants to get you through that it's going to create the paradigm shift. It's going to change your life and he knows it. So he also knows people are gonna go hide out in the back. So what do you do? He trains people to come find you. And so there I am, I'm back there all by myself. And all sudden, here comes this guy. And he makes eye contact with me. And apparently, Tony must train him. When you make eye contact with them. Don't take your eyes off. Because here he comes, man. He's locked eyes with me. And he gets I don't know, 20 feet or so from me. And he kind of looks at me with a really puzzled look on his face like, and he kind of leans into me. He goes, Are you okay? We're not okay, what do we say? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm good here and no worries, you know, be on your way. Mister. Just leave me alone, right? Yeah, no sudden he goes. So hey, are you gonna walk tonight? And I said absolutely not. And I said it that way right to let him know, right? And he goes, Hey, man, it's cool. No problem. We don't want you to do anything you don't want to do. And I'm like, okay, cool. I like this guy. He's gonna get me out of here. Well, here's the beauty man. This guy asked me a question. A perfect stranger. I have no idea who this guy is to this day. But he changed my life. And the question he asked me was, well, wouldn't you at least like to watch? And I'm thinking, Yeah, sure. That should be entertaining. Let's go watch these people burn their feet off. Yeah, let's do that. Right. Well, he goes, Well, listen, man, you can't see anything from where you are. You know, and he's right. I'm 100 yards away. I can't see anything. Now here's what's happened, right? People are already starting to walk and they're screaming and yelling, you know, they're like, they're celebrating, and everybody's chanting and the drums are going. And I mean, you know, again, it's unlike anything you've ever experienced. And because we'll listen, just get in line, and eventually you'll get up close enough to where you can see it. Right. All right, I took the bait. I got in line, because in his defense, he's telling the truth, because I'm 100 yards away, I can't see anything. Right? Well, I'm kind of walking along. And you know, again, the the whole, it's intense. And all sudden, this guy comes up to me and he whispers in my ear. And he goes, he knows when you're ready. When he says go you go. And to he just disappeared into the night. And I'm like, what was that? I mean, where did that come from? And so now I'm kind of walking along. I'm chugging along, and I was I can't see in front of me. See of people. But also when I get to an angle, Chris and I can see. They're doing it. every race, every creed, every color. Every Age, they're walking, and they're screaming and yelling and celebrating. And I'm like, and now I'm just in a trance. I can't take my eyes off of it. Right. It's like, you drive by an accident. Well, don't don't look at the accident. Yeah, right. You stare at it, right? Well, same data here. I'm just completely mesmerized by what I'm what I'm seeing. And so I'm just staring and staring and staring and all sudden, boom. That's where I am. I'm at the front of the line. Right. And so now I'm staring into the abyss. Because I'm looking at that fire lane, three feet wide. 18 feet long. The coals are on top. They're burning bright red. There's a wheelbarrow there. You can feel the heat coming off. And my chest is pounding so hard. I'm ready for it to jump out of my chest. Well, there's a trainer standing there. And all sudden he goes eyes up. You know, like, I bring my eyes up. Well, apparently I'm a slow learner. I'm in a room with Tony for 10 hours and guess what he teaches you to do? Keep your eyes up. Don't stare at what you fear in life. Look to the celebration and look to the outcome. And so now my eyes are up and he goes, squeeze your fist and say yes. And I went Yes. And he went stronger. And I went, Yes. Well, he could tell I wasn't in a peak state. I was leaving a lot on the table. So he screamed at me. And I, I'm, like, ticked off, right? I screamed at the top of my lungs and threw my hands in the air. Yes. And he goes, go, go, go, cool. I took off. Well, here's the first thing I learned about firewalking. And that is when you take that first step, kind of like in life, Oh, you'll take the second, third, fourth and fifth, right? You're not gonna go stand on that lane and just stand there. Well, he positions two people at the end, and they lock arms, right, and they stop you have a lot of walked all the way to Albuquerque at that point, they have to stop me. And they're like, like, stop like your feet and celebrate. And all sudden, so I'm, I'm wiping my feet, and everybody in this whole area and the celebration, aim is screaming. They're celebrating. They're jumping up and down. I mean, again, it's super intense. And all sudden, it dawns on me, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I've burnt myself really, really bad. And I look at my right foot, I lift it up, and it's dirty. But there's actually no burns. Oh, it's my other foot. It's dirty. But there's no burns. So now I'm standing there looking back, the lane is bright red. And I just walked on calls that were 1000 degrees. And I have no clue how I did not. And you know, have you ever done something really cool, right? And you don't really know how you did it. But you but you'll accept the responsibility of it like, yeah, that was me. I did that. Well, and you you get you get all engulfed in the celebration. You got 3500 People that are losing their you know why? They're just jumping up and down. They're celebrating, it's exhilarating. And at that moment, you're like, Okay, if I can walk on coals that are 1000 degrees, what else can I do? Right? Well, here's where it gets super interesting, though. What's the next day. So this event is a four day event. That was day one, the night of day one where we do the firewall, day 230 500 people standing in a Fourier getting ready to go into the venue. I've never seen or witnessed anything like it in my life. Our our frequency, our self belief, self confidence and self worth had been risen so high, collectively together. Because I'm watching all these people. And they're laughing, and they're crying, and they're telling their story. They're talking about the firewalk. They're hugging, they're embracing. I mean, it's, it's just absolutely beautiful. It's gorgeous to see humanistically How a bunch of stringer strangers we're getting along. And you know, you're like, so did we drink the Kool Aid last night? I mean, did the firewalk caused this for everybody to be connected at this level? Well, the answer is yes. And that's why Tony uses the firewalk. Well, later on in the event, I met one of Tony's trainers guy by the name of Ted Macy, super guy, him and his wife, Mary. And so we're talking I'm like, Man, this must be really awesome to be able to come here and be in this environment like this. And he goes, Oh, yeah, it's, you know, it's amazing. It's awesome. And he goes, and you see all these people over here with the black shirts and the pink riding on it. I go, Yeah, he goes, those are all volunteers. He said, So listen, man, if you think you'd like to come be part of this environment. When you when you get home, go call Robins research, tell them you want a crew application, a volunteer crew application, they'll send it to you. And if they like what they see from you. You might get selected. Well, heck, I ran to that. I'm like, Yeah, I definitely want to get involved with Robins here if I can. And so I called them they sent me the application. Fill it out, send it back. Well, a month later, guess why? I get it. I get a letter in the mail, says Dave. Alvin. Congratulations. You've been selected a crew with The Anthony Robbins companies in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Well, next thing I know, there I am. Well, they take your application, it's like five pages long and they analyze what skills you have and where you might fit in as a volunteer crew member. Well, because I had a security background and and I had a military background. They thought they would put me on the part of the security detail that helped to take care of Tony celebrities. And then because I lived on a farm and I had you know, I knew how to use tools and um, you know, a wood splitter and I knew how to operate equipment, right. They said outside he goes onto the fire team, which is exactly where I wanted to be. Well, this was in this was in 95. Shortly after I I originally went to the the event. And the next thing I know they're offering me a subcontractors position to be part of the security detail. And they put me in as assistant captain to the captain at the heart of the firewall. That was in like 96. Well, then in 2003 comes along. And you know, and when you first volunteer, you got to pay your way out, you got to buy your airline tickets, your hotel, your food, all that. Well. Now I'm a subcontractor, so they're paying for all that. And I'm getting a small salary as the assistant captain. When 2003 Tony pulls me aside, and offers me the position as captain. And I first said, Well, Tom, I can't do it. And they're like, Well, can you tell us why Sure. I homeschool my kids can't be away from them like that. And they said, Oh, okay, well, we kind of miss that. Well, so what if we paid to have your kids travel? And your family traveled on the road with us without help? Will? Yeah. In fact, when I talked to my son that evening, after being offered that, you know, flight, my son, nine years old, he's like, so where's our first event, dad? Sydney, Australia. So that's how it started for me. Right now, that was in Oh, three and oh, five, we went to London. And we set a world record there. And that's where we Firewatch 12,300 people. And I want to be clear, Chris, I want to make sure everybody knows that. Guinness Book was not there. I call it a world record. Because I totally believe that it is. I don't think anyone's coming anywhere close to firewalking. 12,300 people, I think. Other safe bet. Yeah. safe bet. Other than other Tony Robbins seminars, right? 10,000 9000 8000 7000, whatever. And that was in oh, five, well, then in Oh, 14, my life took another turn. And that is I got a call from Google. And they're like, Are you the Dave album that does the firewalk for Tony Robbins? Yes. What can I do for you? Well, we'd like to talk to you, if you're not under a non computer can some crack contractual obligation, we'd like to talk to you about hiring you. So when they told me what was going on, they had a graduation of 148 executives that was going to take place in Mountain View at the corporate headquarters. But they wanted to do the event in the middle of the day. And they said, Well, I can't do the firewalk. In the middle of the day, for safety purposes, I can only do the firewalk at night, I got to be able to see the cover of those coals. And I said, however, we could do a glass wall. They said a glass walk. Ooh, that sounds spooky. Tell us about that. And so that's what we did. We ended up doing a glass walk. And it was at my first event with Google. I did two of them. Were one of the one of the executives pulled me aside and said, Hey, I don't know if you know this or not. But you might want to consider creating these corporate team building experiences because you're at the top of the mountain man. Right? Corporate America is starving for this, right? Because what you're doing is you're getting people up and actually doing something, right. You're not just a keynote speaker, right? Because, you know, a lot of CEOs and business owners know that what doesn't challenge you, doesn't change you. You don't become a Navy SEAL by sitting on your butt listening to somebody speak on stage. Right? So you're fully engaged. Well, same thing here. And so I went okay, well, if Google is telling me that I should start my own business. I'm maybe I should listen to them. And that was it, Chris. I started firewalk productions and the next thing I knew I was at Notre Dame, NASA Chick fil A REMAX Microsoft, Heineken, the E O organization. And next thing I know, I'm on the unbound podcast with Chris. So all right, we're glad to have you. Yeah. So it's great to be so at this point, you have, you've probably done well over 100 firewalls probably 235. What? Kind of lost count many years ago, but but my answer is yes. Right. Enough that, you know, this, this does something as far as like, building camaraderie, culture. What is it about firewalking? Now that does it? That's a great question. And I like I liked the way you framed it because you ask it differently. A lot of times people go, you know, how can you walk on coals or 1000 degrees and not burn yourself? And my answer is, I don't have a crew. I don't have a clue. I don't know the magic. I just know that you can do it. And I walked and I saw, I've seen 1000s of people walk and they don't get burnt. So it is what it is. Well, but your question is, you know what happened? What's the dynamic Right, right? Well, we have to go way back into firewalking and that is you can go back 1000 years, the Phoenicians, the people of India, the Indo Europeans, the Indo Europeans used to do firewalking before the warriors would go into battle they had to the night before and if you didn't walk the night before, you weren't allowed to go to battle. And if you didn't go to battle, you just you Dishonored your family, the Polynesians, the Hawaii Since the Native American Indians, again, this has been round and used by cultures all over the world. Now, if we separate the way Tony's doing it versus, let's say, the people of India, or the or the people of Spain, Tony is using it as a motivational leverage, life changing paradigm shifts experience. He knew he knows that he knew that going in. However, the people, you know, in India do it as a rite of passage. They're doing it as a celebration, they're doing it as a graduation. I've got a picture. Now remember, as I said earlier, right, we lay a lane of sod three feet wide, 18 feet long, we sprinkle those goals on top of that grass and you walk on top of that. Well, I've got a picture on my website, about firewalk. In India, where they dig a pit, it's kind of concave. Probably about that deep, right? What about a foot probably six, seven inches, right? And, and standing around it is a whole group of people. And it looks like friends and family. And they're all you can tell it's a celebration of life. And I'll say why in a minute. And they're all dressed in beautiful silk pastel colors. In there, they've got beads, and some of their faces are painted up. And so you can tell it's a ceremony, right? Well, down in that pit. There's a there's a girl and I say girl, and I'm guessing she's probably somewhere in her late teens. And she's got a flower or some kind of, of flower of some kind rose whatever, in her teeth. And then she's caring to newborns to babies. I mean, literally newborns. Now she's walking in calls that are this thick. Right? Not just a few cold sprinkles. And she's all in, she can't get out. And if she was to drop one of those babies, maybe wouldn't make it? No way. So that is a ceremony of life. Right? So again, Tony's using it. Let's say you take a group of people together that maybe they don't agree about mask wearing, or maybe they don't agree about vaccines, or maybe they don't agree about the political platform and agenda that's going on right now. And they've been ripped apart. But when he CEO knows that, that's going to cause production to go in the toilet. And when production goes down, that their bottom line goes down. And so how do you bring those people back together? The fire doesn't care, or doesn't care about what you think about a mask, or what you think about a vaccine or what you think about anything, the fire is requiring you full attention. Right? So like when people step up to the firewalk, right? I've seen this 1000s and 1000s of times 20? Have I walked somewhere close to a half a million people, there's pretty much the same thing. When it's your turn, it's fight or flight and the look on someone's face, is they're scared to death, right. But what they do, though, is they step through that fear in spite of that. And that's what causes the change. Right. So now, when you take a whole group of people that do that together collectively, I jokingly say it's kind of like a near death experience, but it's not. Right. And so that brings everybody back together. And just like I said, you know, the morning after the firewalk, there, I was a net Fourier with all those other people. And I could see the change. I mean, I could feel the change. I could hear it, see it, feel it. I mean, it was it's super powerful. Now what I've done, is I like to turn the firewalk that I do today for my clients into more of a rite of passage. I mean, we can do the rah rah too, you know, like Tony does, that's not a problem. But again, I like to get real deep into the spiritual side of it into the rite of passage into the ceremonial side of it. The other thing I do is I include the board break with the firewalk. So basically, what I've done, there is like some martial arts move, right? If you ever go to any martial arts Dojo studio, every time you graduate with a belt, typically, you'll break a board of some kind in some way, right? Well, same thing here, it's, so I, I get the boards and I have all the participants write something on front of the board, they want to move towards, I have write something on the back they want to move away from. And then I have them write anybody's name on the board. And this is where it gets really, really interesting. And that is I haven't read anybody's name on that board that they're out of sorts with. So if you're in conflict with another human being, whether they're alive or dead, it ends tonight, put their name on the board and forgive them, period. And you're doing that for you. You're not necessarily doing that for the other person. And then to really take it to the next level. I have them write anybody's name on that board that they've lost, and to bring their energy and love to their experience. So we break the board, we go out to the firewalk. We do the firewalk we bring it back around, and then they get a chance to throw that board into the fire. Then I do something else right after that, that's kind of a proprietary part of it. And at that point, those people are reconnected. Because the, the process that I do at the end, I get everybody's heart to calibrate. So once everybody's heart is literally beating at the same time, whatever dissension was going on, and anger and all that nonsense, pretty much just goes away. Right? The next day when they come to work, guess what they're all getting along the way. They should be getting along and working together as a team. And so now, I wonder, as you're working with organizations, right, like culture is requiring like a strong cultures requirement for good organization actually get things done and, and do it in a way that actually serves customers, everything else? I would be, I would love to hear about the change the transformation, right? Have a team that's now gone through one of these events, and comes out on the other side, like what are they able to accomplish? Now as a team, we did a i, one of my clients around the numbers on that. And they got back to me, they had a 16%, they had, well, we had 350 of their sales and marketing people. And they had a 16% increase in sales. So I mean, again, you know, if you've ever played, you know how to, you know, the firewalk is kind of like, I shared this with people all the time. It's like, most people have no idea what it's like to play at a professional athlete level. Like, you know, what athletes looks like when they go out in the field. If they're a football team or a baseball team, are they connected? Are they all high? fiving under there, you know, they're there, they're going out there to win? Well, firewalk does that except it's the only differences instead of, you know, playing baseball, you go to your respective job to your company. So yeah, it connects them, it's such a high level, it automatically creates an amazing culture. Because here's the bottom line. Even if you don't like somebody, you still firewalk to them. So you experience something at that level. So again, it just it productivity goes up, period, right? It's not gonna go down. It just can't. It's not it's not the way it's works, right. So yeah, it's a beautiful way. I mean, it's a guaranteed way to bring all your people together, especially now, you know, since since COVID, and everybody getting all torn apart and angry and fearful, and all that stuff, the fire, just magically melt all that nonsense away, and brings us back to treating each other with love and kindness and respect. And you want to work as a team now. And, you know, because I've even, you know, been in situations where I've been with clients or whatever and, and they fire walk with me. And I've got a friend of mine who's a Google executive and, and I saw him not, I saw him last year, and he hadn't seen me in a few years. And he saw me and he came running up to me and hug me and, and that's normal. That happens all the time. Because the bottom line, you know, once you firewall, you can undo it. You just can't you know, it's embedded in your mind forever. And the bottom line, Chris, they'll forget me. They won't remember my name. They may not even remember what I said. But they won't forget as the experience and how that experience made them feel. Especially with with everything else that you're doing there to kind of heighten the energy and the emotions that they're feeling before they do it. So I've seen this. So I was in the army. Okay, so active duty, the but I remember, ever, like basic training, I still have guys that I'm well connected with. And a lot of it's because of that shared experience. It's so different, right? And when you're there living it every day, same thing from officer corps, same thing for like, my first unit where with all my platoon leaders. Yeah. You know, my commander at the time, like we still have a text thread. And it's like, because we have the shared experience that I mean, it's emotional, right? Like you, yeah, you have these different things going on. You can't break that experience. Now, because it's tied to this level of energy. Well, it automatically creates respect it automatic, right. It's like, look at what you did, man, look what we did as a unit Look what we did as a team. So that just transfers to the next day. Because the firewalk experience never leaves you. Right? You know, I did mine. How many years ago back in 1995. Chris to this day, I can still see everything. I can hear it. I can feel it. I can see it. Like it was yesterday. And it's kind of like, you know, it's like the moment we all experienced 911. Right. Yeah, we know exactly where we were what we were doing what we were saying. Except this is a positive experience versus a negative. So again, once that gets programmed into your brain, right, and that's why that's why I love to do kids. I love firewalking kids. My daughter was six years old, my son was nine and if you fast forward to their life, they are living life large right now. My son just got an unbelievable job. He's got a beautiful fiancee and her family. My daughter's the same way she's got her her dream job she married, she's marrying the man of her dreams. They just had a baby girl, my granddaughter, and you know, they live every day in the moment. And so the firewalk has influenced them. And that's why I love working with kids. I've had companies come to me, and just to make them look good in their brand, they'll hire me and put me out there and just change kids lives. I'll do the board, break with them, do the firewalk with them. And it's an it's a, it's an incredible way. And the results show up every single time, no matter how you use it, whether you want to influence kids, whether you want to influence your team, your company, your community, doesn't matter. Because I've done this at every level. And Google's the one who told me Hey, by the way, this is needed when you can create paradigm shift experiences corporate team building at this level, do corporate American who's going to be all over you? And they were right. So again, whatever I'm doing, whether I'm doing NASA, you know, which is you know, if you're gonna walk astronauts, they've had some pretty interesting experiences. And when they turn this, they turn to you and go, You know what that glass walk was unlike anything I've ever done. So let's, you know, it's like, you know, when you hear that from somebody like an astronaut, you're like, Okay, right. So yeah, and again, we're aggressive. So, so obviously, firewalk glass walks are like the ideal, because it's something that you are never just going to do this at, like at home with your community. What are there other things that you think like leaders of businesses should be or can start doing with their teams to kind of work towards that? Because you're not going to be able to continuously do fireworks, although that would probably be pretty sweet. Right? If you had an annual firewalk event for all your new hires coming in? Yeah, I've got three companies right now to do whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. But for those Yeah. For I guess, for others, is there anything you would recommend for just starting to build that kind of cohesion and culture? Like, is there a smaller level they can work to? Yeah, there's so many things you can do. You know, when you're going to have a company meeting of any kind, and you got to, you're launching a new product? Or maybe you need to teach them about this new software, or something, whatever it is, right? Where you're gonna bring two people together? How do you encourage them? How do you motivate them? And how do you keep them, you know, I what I like to call it a golden handcuffs, so that they don't like their job. They love their job, they love their CEO, they trust who that person is. You know, I mean, you got to think outside the box. I mean, obviously, a firewalk is recommended, because it's going to perform at such a high level, but maybe they logistically they can't do that. So what could you do find something to do for your community. Because, you know, I've learned through a alone is that when you help enough people get what they want in life, you'll always get what you want. So maybe it for them, it's like, I don't know, maybe buy some bicycles, put them together, and then deliver them to the community. Maybe it's to go and get involved with some philanthropist benevolent company out there, nonprofit, and go work there with them for a day. Maybe it's, you know, something I do all the time. And this is great. You can take a person or people to go do it, and watch it and witness it. Every year, they started selling girls, Girl Scout cookies. So I learned this from a dear friend of mine, Gary King, and what he did one day, we were walking in loves, and they were selling cookies. And I watched him go over and he and he was getting started talking to the dead mother. And and he says, Listen, I want to buy $100 worth of cookies. And the girls were sitting there went Oh, like, oh my gosh, you know, you sell one box, they get excited. Now they're gonna say how many boxes? He says, so here's what I want to do, I want to buy $100 worth of cookies. But here's the deal. I don't want the cookies. Here's my proposal all by $100 with the cookies. But I want you to take the girls, get the cookies and go to Window folks on call the director before you get there and tell them that you're coming. Let's do what you want to do. And go find out who annatto folks home has been left to die, where they're not getting any visitors. Take the girls take the cookies, teach them a couple of questions to answer like, you know, what did you do when you were working? You know, where were you born? What did you do you know what I mean? Just get them to talk, spend some time with somebody that has been left to die. And let me tell you what's going to happen. Those girls lives, it's, it's going to be changed forever. And so are the people that you're going to talk to. So what I call that Chris is find and create magical moments for your team and just be creative about it and have something planned all the time. Do stuff stuff that's fun. And of course As any leader, you got to be out there in front. And to me leadership is getting people to do things that they would never do for themselves. But they did it because you've encouraged them, or influenced them to do so. Yeah, so yeah, there's a no, just be creative man. And Google it, you know, literally go anyway, what can I do to motivate my team, inspire my team, whatever? And then, and then be consistent with it. And watch what happens. Awesome. Hey, is there anything else you think just business leaders could could learn from as far as firewalk? And building culture? Oh, yeah. Well, you can't work for Tony Robbins, for close to 20 years, right? And not have a few pearls of wisdom, right. I think one of the number one things that I would share is that everything people do in life, they run patterns. You know, whether they're overeating, that's a pattern. If they work out every day, that's a pattern, if they have a routine when they get up every morning, and the first thing they do is make their bed, that's a pattern. So understanding patterns and how they work for us, and against us. critical, absolutely critical. And so, you know, if you want to change something in your life, then it's real simple. Change the story that you've created about your life, everything that happens to us, I don't care what it is, we create a story. And we either create a good story that empowers this, or we embellish it and we create the victimhood. So you want I say all the time, why don't change your life, change your story. Um, and then, you know, I was watching something here not too long ago, and I loved it. It's two things. One is it was Tom Hanks, and Hanks was in there and and Robert De Niro was in there. And it was three or four other actors. It was all guys. And they were sitting there talking back and forth. And I think the question came up, if you could go back and tell your young self something, what would you tell yourself? And Tom kind of looks around, he says, you know, you know, when everything is going bad, everything's falling apart, you think you're losing it, you know, everything's just coming on, on on hitched. This too shall pass? Who says, Yeah, you know, everything's great. Everything's going great. Everything's going great in the world. You think you got it by the you know why this too shall pass. So just hang in there. And I really love that. And I think the final note maybe, is I love to say this for people is stop looking for heroes, and just be one. That's probably the best advice I could give me offered. If you had to recommend a book that you think just everyone should read. What would you know, I got, I got lots of them. Right. I got a whole library. You know, thinking Grow Rich should be a part of you should read that every year. But one of the what, but one book that a lot of people don't know about that is absolutely profound. It's called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Gay Hendricks Yeah. Fantastic book. I mean, and again, I I'm an avid reader, I do a lot of reading. And, again, the big leap, Gay Hendricks phenomenal book. And man, is it going to enlighten you, it's going to teach you how to live in your zone of genius, which is really critical. It's beautiful thing. Awesome. Love it. If everyone wants to find you figure out how they can get a get a firewalk and all this, where where can they hunt you down? They can hunt me down like a dog? Well, obviously, our websites the best is firewalk adventures with an s.com One word firewalk adventures.com. And then when you get there, you know my calendar is there if you want to talk, you know typically with firewalking is one of two types of a client, one client comes to me and says Dave, this is going on that's going on, I've gotten dissension, or sometimes, hey, we're at the top of our game, and we want to take it to the next level. Or maybe somewhere in the middle. But they want to come to me and they don't want to do anything. They want to write a check. They want my team to come in take care of everything I get on stage, I deliver the keynote, I do all the training, my team is outside work in the fire. And we create that we clean it up, we've changed their people's lives, and we're out of there. Now, so at a fret, as ever suggested of a friend of mine, very successful entrepreneur, he convinced me last year, Matt sharp to do to create an academy so that people that want to send someone to me, like out of their HR department or maybe they're you know, a CEO sends me somebody, an entrepreneur wants to come to me a business owner, a trainer, coach, whatever, they can come to my Academy, which is coming up this October, the third through the seventh, and you'll spend a week with me and I'm going to rock your world. And then we teach you these experiences how to build a fire Whether you want to do a fire in your backyard for your friends and family, or you want to do you know 1000 person firewalk, for a large corporation, doesn't matter, I'm going to teach you everything in between. And then all the other experiences to Chris, right, the glass, walk the board, break the brick, break the arrow, break, the rebar bend, the storytelling, all of it Chamber of Commerce, how to join, you know, do you create a C Corp escort, you know, I give them everything. So when they leave, they've got it all. Alright, so by the way, I want to do something for your listeners, if anybody has, would like to, you know, entertain coming to the Academy, I do nine people at a time. And there's a very specific reason for the nine, which I tell them, you know, once they get there, I've got five already sold. So if anybody of your listeners would want to consider that, they can come to the website, up at the top left corner, it says, The Academy, click on there, you can watch the videos, and then book a call with me. And here's the thing I'm going to do in the discovery call, I'm going to tell you whether this is a good fit. If I don't think it's for you, I'm going to tell you that. So I just want anybody that's going to potentially call me to know that. And so the code that we will give you so you can get a substantial discount for being on your podcast. Here. Today, Chris is 666-828-6828. And again, we'll give you a a nice discount for listening to your show here today. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, this was a fascinating conversation. I didn't even realize that firewalk I mean, I knew there was like, heritage binder, right. And all this history like that it was so engrained into some cultures and that we can now use it to essentially get the same effect within our companies. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Thank you very much for joining me. My pleasure. Yeah, glad to have if there's anything I can ever do for you, let me know. Sure. Well, let's do it again sometime. Sounds great. Awesome. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. And for more information on how to build effective and efficient teams through your leadership, visit leading four.com And as always deserve it