Unbound with Chris DuBois

The connection between health and your capacity to lead isn't that hard to see. But it's often neglected. Find out how you can make some simple tweaks to take charge of your health with today's guest. Are you a leader trying to get more from your business and life? Me too. So join me as I document conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unfound with me, Chris DuBois. Julian Hayes's journey and dream began in the pursuit of becoming a doctor. However, after a year of medical school and some chance encounters left to pursue an even bigger dream. This dream is a world where living an active fulfilling life of adventure isn't the norm. And we're chasing success at the expense of your health isn't as an author, executive health and performance advisor and the founder of executive health. He is on a mission to help forward thinking executives, investors, leaders and entrepreneurs achieve sustain peak performance and maximize longevity. He's the host of executive health and life and a published author with 300 Plus articles featured in top publications like Inc, success and entrepreneur and we are going to dive into some of his thoughts today, Julian, welcome Ron bow. Man, Chris, that is such an awesome introduction. I really appreciate that. That is not the normal, can you just read it off the lines, but you put a little story and excitement into it. So thank you for that. And so thank you for having me here. And I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, no, it's exciting stuff. And I'm very excited to have you on the show. Because we got, I mean, just talking in the pre interview, there were so many different directions. We could go with this episode. And I'm, I'm ready. We're gonna we're gonna go in most of those directions today. So let's start by just hearing hearing your origin story. Yeah. How far do you want to go back? Do you want to go back to teenager? Or do you want to start in college? How far do you want to go? As far as you can safely go? Probably not newborn? Wherever you want to go after that. All right, you know, you know, it's later in the day. So I've had my my obligatory, one cup of coffee. And then I've had a couple of cups of black tea, so and then I got done running already. So I'm a little amped up and do stuff. So anyway, started a teenager, there's a couple inflection points in my life that got me to this point number one was the first one, you know, as a teenager playing basketball. Initially, when I think about health, I thought around 30 years old, is when you start to actually go downhill. And because that was my current paradigm, that's all I saw around me was people started to fall ill around that time, my father was a little sick, my grandparents and everyone around me. And so we're playing basketball one day, there's this older gentleman that is running the courts with us. He's pretty good as well. And it's fascinating because it's a paradigm shattering right there, that this older guy is seemingly keeping up with us young sprout 1617 year olds, so I had to talk to this guy afterward. And here, what's his secret? Was he a mutant was an alien X man, what was he? And so he gave me some very basic advice, you know, as a 16 year old, like, okay, whatever. That's basic talk. But what he did was, he started to plant the seed in my head, first and foremost, that my destiny lies in my hand, you know, and that's something where I didn't think beforehand, I thought that my fate was sealed. My genes were my destiny. And that wasn't the case is that man demonstrated right there. So that's the first seed. So I move on to college, I get very interested in health. But I initially started off in marketing, wanted to be an advertising guy wanting to work at a cool office highrise, giving ideas and going to cool parties at night. But that's not really what it was. They told me I had to start off with accounting sales. And I was not going to be a salesman, right. So the next best thing was to logically become a doctor. So the house was a popular show, then that's a very cool show. I like health and school is pretty easy for me. So let's just take some tests and get get admitted. So I got in, I wrote a pretty good essay, because my grades weren't the best, but wrote a good essay. And so now I'm in New York City, and I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, two totally different worlds. And I was not a city slicker by any means. Now I'm a little more refined. I think I'm more of a hybrid now, but still, definitely got the southern me. And when you're in New York, everyone has a dream of writing the next great screenplay, or building the next unicorn, everyone has a dream. And in New York, to think bold to think differently, doesn't mean that you're crazy. You're just another person. And growing up in an environment I grew up in, that wasn't the case. It was fairly blue collar. And there's a one way of life, you know, going to medical school was the pinnacle is a proven path. It's a title. You get a white jacket, you get your name on here, and then you get this prestige. And so I was a golden child up until that point and Then, halfway through the semester, I'm going out a lot, I'm enjoying life a little bit, probably a little too much. And I meet this lady pretty cute. But I forgot all about that, because I was really infatuated with the story. She's telling me that she's basically combining her passions with the job she's doing, and doing it all on her terms. And that idea, stuck in my head so much that I was in the middle of a test, and I just start daydreaming about it. And I was like, Oh, my God, this is not it. For me. I knew health was going to be my like, core of what I was going to do. But it wasn't going to be a surgeon. And so I went back home. And I told everyone I'm excited, had a good son had a good year, but I'm not going back, think I'm done with it. And I found I think I found what I really want to do. And I expected everyone to shower me with praise. And like, Yes, I'm excited, let's do this together, right. And all I got was confused looks and asking me to go take a drug test. And then I get brainwashed in New York, what happened to you. And so that's there's a lot of lessons in that. And, you know, I carried for it, but it's still confused by that. And so I went to work at a gym and in a call center, because I just needed some income. And so I went from one year being a golden child and medical school to now just getting paid minimum wage, doing political surveys and working at a gym. And during that process, I started to, I always continue to read like I was in school. So I found this thing of genetics and epigenetics. And then I get into other things in terms of health and wellness and more for thinking precise models of that. And I reached out to these people, I've never had a problem reaching out to people. And so I'm learning from them. And then I'm adding these things to myself, first and foremost, then I get involved in writing, I go pitch my local newspaper, I just walk in there. And that leads to writing for different publications and everything after I pitched him. And and then the coaching aspect is just kind of something that took form on its own, where you start off personal training, you evolve from that. And then you continually evolve. I talk to people, I listen to people. And I think of the stream service that's still continually being evolved where I you know, people, it's a one stop shop. Now, that includes a medicine, medical aspect, genetic testing, a whole host of very other technologically precise modalities to really, truly be enough one for an individual for total human optimization. But the big thing of that is really just staying curious. And I think that's been my silver lining throughout the whole process. And I think that's something that I know, you know, leadership is a big thing here. And I think curiosity is has kind of been my driving force. Awesome, man, you went through an actual adventure to get where you are. So let's jump in performance optimization, I think it's probably good to start with the basics, a lot of founders will will often get sucked into their business so much that they neglect during the standard, like the big three, right, eat sleep. So I think, why don't we start there? Yeah, talk through some of some advice like sleep, probably a great place to start. Yeah. And I think even before that, I think even before looking into the tactics, I think one of the good things to look at here is to understand why this happens. It's such a common place. And the reason why is because it's inadvertent. A lot of times it's with these types of individuals. It's not negligence, you most people of this caliber know that they should take care of themselves. They should sleep more. They should eat, eat healthy foods, move their body, they know these things. But why does it not happen? That's the thing that always fascinates me. And a lot of this comes down to you can call these some of the paradoxes of success, the unintentional side effects of success. These are signs of success that you don't see these things hide in the dark, we only see things in the light. So as you're becoming more of a leader, you're getting more responsibility. You you have this obligation to people, you're not just say you have a team of 10 people. It's not just those 10 individuals, those individuals may have family, so maybe it's a family of three, that's multiply 30 People now. There's 30 people who depend on you to be at your best. That's a lot of pressure right there. It's a gift. It's a blessing, but it's pressure. So now you have these extra responsibilities, these extra expectations. You still have people in your personal life that you deal with. So you're being pulled in all these directions. And the thing that unintentionally gets left out then is your personal well being. And the reason why it's so sneaky in terms of why don't we not why do we not know this is because health doesn't move in terms of like, it's not, it's not a microwave, going a week without exercising or eating healthy, you're not just going to immediately have all these biomarkers on your lab tests go out of whack, you're not just going to all of a sudden gain three or four inches on your waistline, you're not going to go from a size 33 to 38. Right? These things don't happen like that, it happens so slow, it's like death by 1000. Cuts. That it's, it's subtle, until it's not subtle, just like a crack in a dam doesn't really mean that much when it's just one little crack, or more cracks are to happen in one day. That thing just overflows. And that's the thing with our health is usually we need a event to happen. We need pain to happen. You know, for myself, my pain came earlier in life through seeing my father, my grandparents, family members around me struggle with their health, and see and not just the physical aspects, but seeing the emotional aspects of everyone around them, and what that did to them. So I had that gift early to see and experience, a lot of us are blocked off from that. I've volunteered in burn units. I've done other things in hospital. So I've been around this my whole life. So I know the fragility of life and how important it is for that. Now, for individuals, usually we have to experience pain in order to get to that place. Unless you become really hyper aware. sounds easier said than done, right? Because there's so many other things that can come throughout the day. So you can easily just press this on the backburner. But hypertrophy can become hyper aware, and really, truly conceptualize this idea in your head, that you only can lead as far as your body and health in mind will allow you to lead and as good that you can lead. That's one of the ways that you can avoid having unnecessary pain happen before you change. Right. So I can go into sleep now if you want. But I mean, yes, but that so that was a great foundational like this right? We need to be looking at our capacity to lead through the lens of our health, our mental health or well being, so that we can actually achieve more in everything else. So I think with that, yeah, let's let's dive into some of the tactics. And yeah, so when you're thinking about sleep, sleep is literally connected to every single facet of our life, from our decision making, from our hunger hormones, and helping us control our appetite, to our hormones, and testosterone and estrogen and many others, growth hormone and so many other things. And the thing with sleep once again, is that our body is amazing in that we can sleep deprived ourselves for so long. We could sleep on five hours, six hours, and quote unquote, we feel fine or functional throughout the day. We're getting by. But the question is, are we We're just existing, we're just getting by, we're not necessarily thriving over the long cord over the long run of time, we can get by so that's a different stare. But if you get to look at imaging, you can see a brain that getting the optimal amount of sleep, and a brain that's not getting the optimal amount of sleep. And what you'll see is the sleep deprived brain, it's going to have we'll look at two areas, we'll look at our prefrontal cortex, logic reasoning, good decision making, then we can look at our amygdala for a primitive, more impulsive emotional area. And you're going to see the brain that sleep deprived is going to have much more activity going on in that amygdala area, and less activity going on that prefrontal cortex. So when we translate this to a real world perspective, you're going to have a leader and an individual who is acting much more impulsively. He's not acting out of logic and reasoning and good decision making. Which, you know, you're, when you're in a leadership position, that's the worst thing you want to do is to be highly emotional, because people are looking up to you to make good decisions to steer the ship to drive the company to drive the team in, you know, if you're an investor to drive the finances as well. And so that's one aspect. I think about relationships. I think this is a driver as well, I can't prove this. I never seen a research study on this, but I think some relationships would be better and simply if both parties were not sleep deprived, they wouldn't be so irritable with each other. And, you know, there's a study that I love with with sleep whereas they looked at as sleep deprived group, and as a group that wasn't sleep deprived, and both lost amount, both lost around the same amount of weight. But the difference was the sleep deprived group didn't lose as much body fat, the weight they lost was a little more muscle as well, whereas the optimal sleep group, they lost body fat, and kept more than lean body mass, which is beneficial. Because you know, as you're losing weight, you want to have as high as lean body mass as possible. You don't just want to lose weight, and muscle. And so that's a key distinction there. And then also, the testosterone levels from the sleep deprived group was much, much lower compared to the group that was in a more restful state. He just told me I'm sleeping more mean even with with my background, so like I was in the army for a while in the infantry. And so we generally when we go training, you're going to be sleep deprived. Right, as you remember, every week, we go up train, and then the weekend was spent in recovery and just being miserable. And it was like for the short term, that's fine, you're up, you're walking around in the woods at night, like, no issues, you can do this for days. But then as soon as it catches up to you, it's like, bam. But I would also say, though, you know, I haven't been in that situation. But you know, you're in a very sympathetically driven environment. And so your senses is going to keep you awake, you're operating on a lot of adrenaline in that situation, right? So that's going to kind of help blunt the effects. But I bet if you just, if you just sat down and relax a little bit, oh, yeah, you're out, you're gonna start, you're gonna, you're out, you're gonna start to feel it. So it's good to just if that's the case to keep moving. Right? And that's why people sometimes don't feel this because you can blunt the effects with with caffeine in just chucking down coffee and espresso. You're going to blunt the effects of the sleep deprivation because that's what caffeine is effect has on you. But once that wears off, once again, all that adenosine and brain that's being held up, those gates are going to open up and you're going to start to feel this drowsiness. Yeah. Yeah, the army was the first time I have fallen asleep walking. And so you just snap back through and you're like, Whoa, we just walked three miles. And, ya know, no. Realization, it's like, you just jump forward in time. You're like, here we are. Okay. Yeah, so, lots of great reasons to sleep. I feel like most founders know this. It's like, hey, just you need that wake up, call. Just wake up, don't give up. Just do it. We just pay attention to sleep. In addition to that, though, we get like movement exercise. What? Uh, yeah, what can we talk about here. So with? Let's start with, with movement. And I always like to think of this as, like a movement creates a healthier brain. If you think about a lot of the greatest thinkers in the world, and some of the best founders in the world, like Steve Jobs, you know, Charles Dickens, and a lot of composers, they had these things called walking meetings. And so from a practical standpoint, you're getting exercise in and you're taking care of business. So you're getting the best of both worlds. But what you're also doing is you're stimulating a lot of neurons when you're moving and exercising is no coincidence that, you know, for me, when I'm out on a run, a lot of my best ideas come to me. And that's helping with creativity, because there's so many different areas of your brain that's firing. One of those is BDNF stands for brain derived neurotrophic factor. You're literally creating new brain cells, with yourself. And you know, movement and exercise is probably the most important piece of the longevity piece. I think it's, to me, it's even more important in nutrition, which sounds kind of crazy. But I'm learning more and more that good movement, that exercise is going to drive these other healthy behaviors I know with myself. The more I stick to my movement, and my exercising, the more adherence I have to my nutrition to my sleep, one because I'm tired, I exhausted myself throughout the day. So I have this more of an inclination now to go to sleep. It's a natural drive now to go to sleep. So that's going to help as well. Sometimes founders and they have problems with sleeping. It's usually a scheduling problem, a behavioral problem in terms of too much caffeine too later in the day. Not enough activity to really exhaust themselves and also not controlling their mind in terms of there's there's a lot of ideas running in their hair, there's anxiety, there's worry, there's all these things that they have to get through with their head. And exercise helps alleviate all those things. Like cannot tell you how many times I've been in a bad mood, I've, or I've been stressed about something. And a couple sets of deadlifts has just like almost just vanish it outside of my body. It's just like this whole demeanor myself has just come out. And it's gone now, right after those couple sets just from that. And so it's from a health perspective, I think we know the benefits of movement. But I think just as it relates to us as business, people and leaders, I think it's underestimated and also what you're doing when you're training. And when you're doing heart training, one of the reasons what running teaches me yes, it's, it's healthy and everything and even like lifting but this is also building resiliency. For me. It's building toughness, I'm building calluses in a you know, both literally and, and mentally as well, to do something hard, is going to carry over to other aspects of life. And I think this is especially important for those of us who are who didn't, don't don't have any type of military experience, right? Because as a civilian, if you want it to you can avoid all hardship, if you want. It's pretty easy. Invite can be very convenient. So I'm just being honest. Yeah, i Nobody makes me run miles. Whereas you guys had to run miles and everything right, you had to do physical taxing movements and exercises and rucking and all those things. I don't have to do that. Most people don't have to do that. But what this does is this is going to help me become resilient. By taking care of my sleep. I'm building resiliency because I'm building a healthier immune system. So when things happen, things always will happen. It's not about avoiding things not happening. It's not about avoiding maybe getting a cold or something like that. It's about how quickly Am I gonna be able to bounce back and get back to my work get back to my purpose in my mission? Right? Yeah, definitely. If you want it to I can, I can break down kind of how I go about exercising for people, actually, that would actually be great, especially for founders who might be on a time crunch, right? They just don't have a lot of extra time. What are some recommendations? Yeah, I think every day you have to do something to you have to do some sort of exercising, not saying you need to run a marathon, not saying you need to have this crazy workout session, but physically taxing yourself every day, I think is a great physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and everything because running a company, running teams is literally our it's, it's like a jungle, you know, it's you putting out a lot of fires. And like I said, there's a lot of things coming your way. And this is one way to kind of help yourself build the capacity to be able to handle those things. And so for me, I, I look at aerobic and anaerobic. And the first thing with anaerobic is like lifting weights, strength training is very important. When you're building lean body mass and to if you think about this, when we get older, what's one of the ways that a lot of times older people are taken out, unfortunately, fall to fall, to fall, you lose, we take for granted basic things like stability, balance, going up the steps, representing food for ourselves, yeah, grip strength, very basic things. Because we're young, we're able right now, we're not in our 80s. But eventually, it's going to come in time for that, right. And the whole purpose is to perform at a high level, even in our 80s and 90s. So we train right now for how we want to perform decades later. So that's my first philosophy. So I'm focusing on strength and focusing on building as much muscle as possible. If there are women listening to this, do not worry, you're not going to bulk up. Even if guys are listening to this, do not worry, because if muscle was that easy to put on, I wouldn't be very happy. But it takes work. It takes work. So you're not just going to snap your fingers and put on muscle, especially as you get older because then you have to fight against biology. Because usually, around 30 We start to lose muscle mass. Now, strength training, challenging ourselves with weight, that's going to stop that and help blunt that. But just by default, if we do nothing, we start to waste away. So we have, say, I prefer three to four days for individuals. I'm more on on that side of things. So three to four days of strength training. If you just absolutely hate hate weights right now, at least give me two days. And you can do full body exercise. You can do full body workouts for those two days. Even if you do three days and you don't really like weights that much. Just do three full body days. Focus on compound exercises like your squats, your deadlifts, and things that have things that work multiple body parts so you get more bang for your buck. Now, if you love the gym, then you can start doing more isolation stuff and those sorts of things. But this is just more bang for your buck. And you The second part of this is the aerobic cardiovascular side. I used to overlook this, because I was more of a bro. And I didn't want it to ruin my gains by running, I thought I was going to lose all my gains and stuff by running, which was the furthest thing from the truth. So with aerobic activity, there's a couple of key areas. Number one is zone to training. And even if you don't know your zones, right now, think of this as doing aerobic activity to where you can have a pretty comfortable conversation as you're doing it. So your heart rate is not too high. And so this is a steady comfortable pace. So I would say do this at least three times a week at least. And I forgot the number in my head some but um, maybe 100 hours, I mean, women, no sorry, not 100 hours. Sorry, yeah, not 100, I decided 100 hours in a week, 100 minutes, 200 220 minutes a week is probably a good time. If I'm thinking of this correctly, I'm trying to think of a study off the top of my head. But um, but anyway, we're doing this on to activity, but three times a week. And zone two, because this is helping us train vo two Max vo two Max is a very, very important easy metric that we can all utilize and and work on. That's highly correlated with longevity and an existing health span, I did a whole episode on this, where I go into more detail on on this particular metric. And if you're curious, I would say aim for a vo two max of someone a decade younger than your current age right now. So I'm 37. So I try to have a vo to massively 725 27 year old, you can go about that. And then the last piece is to at least have one day a week to where you're doing more high intensity training, this is more of a high zone for probably zone five training, high intensity. So you're not these sets are not going to be long. So you're hitting all the quadrants there. And then incorporate a little mobility work throughout the week as well. And so, you know, I gave these suggestions, you can kind of start to add this up in your head and create a calendar for yourself. So every day can be filled doing one of these things. And it doesn't take no more than 40 minutes, 45 minutes to do these things. And we all have that. Even if you work a 10 hour day, and you sleep eight hours, that is still at 18 hours. So there's still a timeframe to get that done. And then still have time over to enjoy life or do whatever you need to do. And so that's where it comes back to this the scheduling and the destructuring. Right. For those who are just listening on the podcast, you just said you're 37 You do look like you're probably 27. So I'll give you credit for taking care of your health well, so there's more more reason to listen to you. I appreciate I appreciate that. We're trying to work on that. There's a biological age test. And so biologically, I'm around 31 I believe right now. I'm 34. And I feel like I'm probably 40. So you probably beat your body up a little bit. Yeah. And I just got back from vacation where the people in the room next to me just like party all night, and so came back from vacation more tired, so I'm still catching up. But which evidence sleep is important, everyone. Alright, so last area is just with diet and stuff. But I actually just want to skip over that for now. Okay, so I got a bunch of other questions I'd love to dive in. I think there's so many variables, we were gonna get swept away if we go into, like proper eating and nutrition. Yeah, well, the easy thing with eating, you can just do this. And in summary, just think about your really think about your nutrition, don't even think about particular diet, think about a framework. And for most people, they don't eat enough protein. And this goes back to the whole lean body mass thing. So most people can do well with eating more protein. That's one thing and didn't really think about your framework. So think about when you're going to eat, how you're going to eat, why you're going to eat and how you're doing it as well. Answering those four quick questions can build you a simple framework, before getting bogged down into specific types of diets. Yeah, I like that. That's a pretty simple way to just approach it. But what I'd like to talk about is how we kind of got into this a bit but organizing your day for health. Right actually, is there are there specific things triggers throughout the day that we should be looking for, for to set ourselves up for success to be more conscious of these things, right? We talked hyper awareness. How can we be just looking at our day, any day on the calendar and setting this up? Yeah. So just like any, just like any business appointment that you're going to do or any important meeting, you're going to have this on your calendar. So what I would suggest for people to do is as you go about scheduling your week, organizing your days and everything is obviously you're probably going to have important personal family events on there. Those are non negotiable for people. So whatever those are There isn't going to be on there, you probably have designated work times that you'd like to do your calls, your podcasting, your coaching calls, whatever that may be. So that's going to be filled in, there's still going to be a lot of blank space. And that's where you can put your exercise in. So for most people, it's either I start my day, with exercising, or I in my day with exercising, for me, with my specific training right now, I am a little different. So I like to start working immediately. And then take a break and workout. And to do a little work again, and didn't go again. So you do what works for you. But generally, for people, starting your day with exercising is going to be better. And you're probably going to have a higher adherence, especially if you struggle with it initially. The only worry I have with people who's scheduled at the end of the day, is sometimes letting their emotions or their mood dictate if they're going to do it or not. That's the only thing I worry about. Now, if you're seasoned at this, you'll go regardless. But for people where the habit is not that strong, it's a little bit of a dangerous proposition for me, because one stressful day work gets, you got these extra calls these extra things you need to do. Next thing, you know, you brush it aside, and you just keep working into the night, grabbing a food by convenience, and you kind of going on that slip of falling off those habits. So if you're not season, I would say start your day with it. Or if you can use it, use it as a do it in the middle of the day in between your workday as like a halftime if you have that option as well, because it's a great way to break up today. So maybe the first half of your day is creative, focus work, then you exercise. And then the next part is you do calls and more admin stuff as well. And then you can kind of end the day with your family personal time. It makes sense. Now, how do you approach like, with your clients, actually, like deliberately goal setting? Within their health? Yeah, so usually, so the first thing is usually when I talk about a goal, where it's not a place that we are getting, we're not getting a goal, we're coming from a place of a goal. And what I mean is by that is, whatever this goal, this vision is, we're going to go ahead and start to act in this in this in that light right now. So for example, the first thing I would do is I want to create a vision for themselves and not just like, I I'm losing 10 pounds, and I look ready to teach. That's not there's not enough emotion in that. It's not strong enough. I want them to think about how optimal health feels to them. What is their specific definition of optimal health? What does it feel like? What do you look like? How are you dressing? How are people looking at you? How are you leading? How does your family look up to you? What type of examples are you setting? So it's very, very vivid picture of what optimal health is. And I want you to think about, say it's 50 years later, what are some of the sports that you like to do right now? Say you like to play tennis, okay. We're going to be at five years old, you're going to be playing tennis, with your great grandkids, maybe great, great grandkids, who knows? I want you to visualize this session, how you're playing, how you're swinging, moving, you're really getting in touch with that. So we set this picture of the future. Now we come back to the present. And we're backtracking, okay, to be this athlete, this tennis athlete at five? How do I need to go about programming in function to myself right now to be that person at five. So I think about myself, I, I want to be a pretty much an all around athlete do a bunch of different things. So I need to train myself like that type of athlete right now. So when maybe I do slow down by a percent, at 5060, I'm still going to be a top performer at that age, and I'm going to be able to handle those demands when that time comes. So that's the, that's the very first thing is to really get clear on that picture there. And, you know, so then once we have that, it's usually one or two ways and it's usually I usually just pick about two to three habits start to dive into two to three big core actions that we can do now to start working toward that thing. And a lot. A lot of times the data depends on that. So after a lot of testing, that's going to depend on it, but really, probably for the first month or so. It's really a lot of Dare I say we writing their mind and just taking inventory of their life and really helping them and audit themselves and start to seamlessly organize health into their life. Because a lot of times, there's friction that we call us, right? We have our personal life on, we have our business professional life. On one hand, we have health, on the other hand, and a lot of times, we immediately jump into tactics and strategies. And we think short term with those, we don't think long term and congruence in the synergy that those things have. So we slow down a lot at the beginning. And then we slowly ramp up and go faster. Once we are we found our groove, and we have a lot of the foundation stuff laid out. Yeah, I like that approach. So last question, before we get into our our final three, a lot of a lot of leaders right should be leading from the front as far as taking care of themselves having great fitness and everything. We have the ability, with certain companies coming in now to set up different corporate wellness programs. Is there anything specific that you would be looking for within these programs that you would recommend to leadership? Yeah, the big obvious, I mean, so many things here, because I've done, I've done a few corporate wellness gigs. And so the very first one, the obvious one is the actual leaders need to be involved, I need to see them participating. I cannot tell you how many wellness luncheon learns or corporate events that I've spoken at. And they're nowhere to be found. And so what kind of example is that showing that this quote, unquote, important event about health is wealth and all these good things, right. And they're not there, they're probably in office, probably not eating something good, or they're just, and so you're not sending a good message already to the people there. So that's the easiest one. The second one is really get everyone involved a lot of times, you need to see where people are what really interests them. So you can do a simple, I guess you can call it a poll or just a questionnaire, whatever you want to call it, just to see where everyone's coming from, maybe some people are struggling with wellness, in terms of more of a mental side of things. Maybe some is nutrition, maybe some is exercise. And what you're doing is you're gathering up data, once again, to create a more precise approach. Because the attrition rate, the actual longevity of a lot of these programs are not that good, the participant participation rates are not that good. And it's because there's not input from the actual people. It's people from the top that are just telling you what to do, just pointing to it, but they're not really sure it's even a good fit. And, I mean, I don't talk about this subject, but also, but um, with wellness now in the word well being, you have to include things like the financial wellness, and other aspects of wellness for the whole thing, more of a holistic type of program now. So that's something that's missing out. And I think another thing that people can do now is to utilize technology. Most people have wearables now. And you can set up, you can set up a group, you can set up different teams to go against each other to make it competitive to make it gamify. You can set incentives for you lose X percentage of weight, I don't actually I don't know if that's legal. I don't know. But um, I don't know if that's legal, or if people might get offended by that. Right. But say, Doctor, he, I think he had a word that a certain way, because I think people say That's discrimination. So that one may not be a good idea. But so you probably can go wait, but you what you could do though, you could do activity, you could do activity, and so many steps, right? So many workouts each week, you get x and x, right? Or this, this happens some type of incentive, or you get you get eight, you get seven, seven and a half hours of opportunity to sleep doesn't mean you doesn't mean that you're asleep for those seven and a half, but at least gave yourself the opportunity to sleep seven and a half hours, right. So stuff that's very process oriented. That gets people in the habit, I think that's a focus as well. And then also, having someone come in and talk for an hour, hour and a half is great. But you need a follow up, you need a plan for that. So and I think that's a thing as well have the actual support for people as well. So maybe that's maybe that's like a podcast series for individuals who really cared about it. You can do a company podcasts, or, and you can have success stories. You can have updates. And so not only are you showing that you're hip and in tune with the times with podcasting and that kind of thing. But you're also building company culture and camaraderie by humanizing people. It's not just someone that you work with, you're learning about them, you're learning about some of their struggles, and they're sharing some of their wins. They can be an inspiration for everyone. So I see it on on many fronts on what people can do with that, but you know, as we always It starts with leadership. And it starts with thinking outside the box, and being creative and trying new things. Julian, you have a wealth of knowledge, health, wellness, fitness, everything. And we're we're gonna dive deeper on a future episode assuming your Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But, uh, right now, what is, what is one book that you would recommend everyone. So there's a lot of leaders on this podcast. And so while you're working with so many different types of people, there's a, you know, I love Patrick Lencioni books. But the one that was very beneficial to me, and I'm reading again, is getting naked. And I love that book, just because it's, a lot of times we will work with clients who may be a little more wealthier than us, who maybe we deemed them a little smarter than us or they're more on the hierarchy in terms of the chain. And we may feel intimidated by it or feel like a fraud or an imposter by I know I did at times. And that book really puts things into perspective about what what vulnerability means, what leadership means in terms of working with these people, and what it really entails about building client loyalty. And really being a good consultant, coach or advisor, whichever one you call yourself. So I love that book. I love all these books, actually. But I love that one in particular. All right, what is next for you professionally? Oh, man, that's a different question. There's so many different fires. I think a simple one for me is there's a lot of different AI tests in health that are coming out. And I'm looking forward to integrating some of those into the practicing in use it on people just to get even more, more precise with, with how we go about things. Awesome. Yeah, that'll be fun. Finally, where can people find you? While you're listening to this awesome podcast, or you're watching it on YouTube? Go ahead and subscribe over well after you leave a review for this one, go ahead and head over to executive health and life. And that will be my podcast. It's a podcast where it's a mixture of health business, longevity and performance all intertwined. And and you can go to executive health.io For more information as well. Awesome. Thank you for joining me. It's been awesome as well man, I really enjoyed this conversation. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. And for more information on how to build effective and efficient teams through your leadership, visit leading four.com And as always deserve it