Unbound with Chris DuBois

What do storytelling AI and leadership have in common? Find out what today's guest Are you a leader trying to get more from your business and life? Me too. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Right today we are joined by Richard Rosser. He is a storyteller and having worked on shows such as Grey's Anatomy, Chicago Med, this is us MacGyver and 24. He's learning the value of a well told story. He is also the author of chat GPT simplified, which I might say is one of the greatest one on one books on AI that I have read. Now as a master storyteller. He does more than just keep viewers hooked. He understands how to communicate big ideas, stir up emotions, and get people to consider different perspectives. And today, he's going to share that and more with us. Richard, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Chris, it is such a pleasure to be here. Yeah, I am excited for everything. We're just talking. For viewers. We're just talking before the show that even just sharing some of the things that we talked about in our pre interview with my friends, and some of my clients, they got excited about everything in here. So hopefully, we don't fail now. Because we've got plenty of fun stuff to talk about and dive into. Yeah, so let's, let's go right to the start. Why stories? Why stores? Probably a loaded question, right? Let's see, how do I start this off? Well, on a time No, you know, story is the way we communicate. I read I read a statistic. The other day that said we communicate 85% of our day we communicate through story or the narrative structure. And I thought 85% That seems really, really high. And then I started to sort of think back on any given day, and, you know, everything we do, whether we're online, we're you know, sending an email, we're at lunch with a friend or colleague, everything we do is through story. And our brains over the 10 or 15,000 years of human kind of human being have been geared towards storytelling. And so our brains are wired. There's a whole science of brain science behind the concept of story and why storytelling works. For instance, there's a concept called Narrative transport. And say, for instance, you're you're watching your favorite movie, or you're reading a favorite book. One of mine is Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett, it's all about cathedral building in the in the 1200s, and 1300s. And when I get into that book, it's like 900 pages long. And when I'm in the middle of that, I'm gone. I'm in the 12th, and I'm in the 13th century. And, you know, the buzzer can be ringing, my pizza's on fire, the Amazon guys ringing the doorbell because he needs me to sign for, it doesn't matter, it all falls away. And so ultimately, that's the power of story is that the ability to connect with folks and connect in a way that everything else just disappears. And ultimately, that's what we're trying to do, whether we're talking to a friend at lunch, or giving a speech or, you know, speaking in public, in front of two or 300 people about a topic to a specific group of folks, that's what we're trying to do is connect on a certain level, so that people aren't thinking about, Oh, I gotta return that text, or I gotta, you know, check my email or it all falls away. And we lock in to the actual story itself. Right? Where they actually lose themselves in that story. Exactly. Yes. Yes. And so I work a lot of my clients are startup founders. And the story, right, the founder story is usually what drives the growth of the company, because that's what people will find themselves associating with and like wanting to be part of that transformation that generally the founders had, because they built this company on what they have found. How, I guess, how are you? How do you approach creating these stories and working with with companies or anyone to create story that other people can find themselves in? For marketing for everything around their business? Well, Chris, that's your point is fantastic. Because, ultimately, why does a company exist? You know, and, and I do workshops and seminars and consulting. And one of the things I've created is a breakout session where we learn how, you know, we learn together to tell a story. Now, a lot of folks who have created something, tend to be very technically minded, right, either financially technically minded, or programming and coding. And so they're the folks that think that they don't really need to tell a story because they've created this amazing thing or program or invention, but ultimately, they We are the ones that need to tell the story of how it came to be. And a founder story is really, really powerful. Because it's the genesis of what was created, you know, you and a founder in telling their story can really connect with folks on an emotional level, if the if that story is told correctly. And so that's one of the things that I really work with folks, is to figure out, what's the emotion behind the story, what prompted a founder to what what issue or challenge or need did they see out in the marketplace that enabled them to transcend everything and come up with something that solved that problem or issue or challenge. And within within that story is, you know, it's a classic hero's journey, right? Whether it's a whether it's a male or female, entrepreneur, or startup, it doesn't matter. It's the classic hero's journey of going and solving a problem, and coming up with that solution that now exists in the world. And so what you want to do is, is latch on to the emotion, and I don't mean, emotional, it doesn't have to be a sob story. In fact, humor is one of the best ways to tell a story and get a story across. So but the emotion of the intensity of that story will help with that connection. And going back to the narrative transport, the concept of narrative transport, there are a number of sort of sub theories. One is called neural coupling. And what that means is that when we tell a story, there's a shared experience between the storyteller and the audience. And again, the audience can be one person, or it can be hundreds of folks. But there's a shared experience between the storyteller and the audience. And when that shared experience comes to the forefront, that's neural coupling. And so the audience feels like that they're right there with the storyteller in the situation. And that's why it's important. As we move through our careers in our space, and selling and pitching that we we learn about our audience, and we can tailor that story to the audience. So for instance, if you have a founder, they may have a verb, they have sort of, you know, a stock version of their story. But if they're talking to a finance here, they may pepper that story with, with some more financial concepts, terms, information. Whereas if they're talking to someone who is ultimately going to be a consumer of that product, they're going to heighten different different aspects of that product. So it really right, it really changes you have to know your audience. And the other thing is practicing the story and making it feel as though it's the first time you're telling it each time. Right. Yeah, those are. So we have a lot of background in marketing. And even in simple coffee on a website, we we call, there's a term called the Unity statement. And it's where the influencer and the influence see agree on something, because that's going to it's that coupling, right, that shared experience. And so like, I think even looking, you're looking at stories, like from the the big scale, right, like I can go and tell you the story to get you bought in. But it could be as simple as that single sentence that on a website, it just hooks very quickly. Oh, and that's why I think it's fascinating. And another really great copywriting possibility is when you ask a question that you already know the answer to right you ask a pointed question that points out a pain point, or a need of the consumer who's interested in your product? And you know the answer. And you're you're setting you're teeing it up so that you can provide the answer which is obviously your product. Right? Yeah, that makes so much sense. The, when we were talking last time, we got into some of the different types of stories and and like how even you know, whether it's children who are hearing, these are adults, like everyone hears certain types of stories, and they just they get bought in really quick. I'd love to go deeper on that and how we can potentially use that in like the business world in order to help leaders so you mentioned in your introduction in my my bio, that I've worked on TV shows and so I've worked on 24 This is us Grey's Anatomy, Chicago Med the MacGyver reboot, and a whole host of shows that no one's ever heard of. But, but what I learned during the making of all those shows, especially shows say for instance spa, really all of them but 24 and this is us they have certain that a certain way of communicating 24 was fantastic at the cliffhanger. It was incredible at building this unbelievable tension and then releasing. And sometimes they didn't release that tension until we got back after the commercial. And then this is us had this incredible ability to build these layers between the characters and layers of time. And so that's really interesting in that respect, right. And so, what I've done is, through my career of helping create the stories on screen, I, between seasons or between shows, I went out and I started working with school kids, and and then I've been working at colleges and lecturing on the college circuit. And then I've started working with entrepreneurs and startups and existing businesses as well. But when I was starting working with young kids, I wanted them to start telling stories, and not not get caught up in the actual sort of telling of the story that not get not get belaboured by the actual storytelling itself. I don't know if that makes sense. But, but basically, I would say, Okay, I'm going to tell a joke. And now this isn't your classic setup, punchline setup punchline. It's a story joke, right? So it's about a paragraph, it's got a fun character, maybe a character voice, some fun gestures, a sound effector to. And what I would do is get the kids so entertained with this joke that when I then handed them a little joke, and each, each kid would come up, and they would tell a joke. Well, what they're learning in just telling a simple joke, is the ability to harness a character to give that character a voice, or a sound effect, or a gesture that emphasizes whatever that character is going through. And then they would each do a little joke, right. And then the next the next session, we do tall tale. And then the third session, we do a ghost story. Or if those students were older in college or at the graduate level, we do talk around urban legends. Everyone loves ghost stories and urban legends, there's something about the virtuality virality, of ghost stories, and urban legends, you know, it's incredible. So there's always something to latch on to. And so what we do is we learn to tell these stories, and don't tell anyone, but the kids are standing up in front of a group of 20 to 25 other students, and they're actually speaking in public and they don't even realize it, right? They're having so much fun telling these stories, because they're just normal stories. I'm not saying okay, now you have to stand up and make a speech about, you know, what, it's it's so informal, that it tricks them and their minds and into the fun of telling these stories. Why do the same thing in my workshops and seminars with business folks, right, and entrepreneurs and folks who are involved with startups, I have breakout sessions where there's a there's a little concept of story, it's one of the shortest stories that you can make. It's called Hemingway's six word story. Right? It sounds like you know what I'm talking about. But for those listening or watching who don't know what I'm talking about, Hemingway wrote a story that says, used baby shoes for sale. Never used baby shoes for sale. Never used. So six words, but reflect on that little sentence. baby shoes for sale, never used and reflect on the emotion. What is that story about was about a miscarriage was the baby was the baby born, but but passed. I mean, all of a sudden, there's this outpouring of emotion when you start to analyze those six simple words. So I do a very similar breakout session and say, Okay, let's do a, let's do a six, a six word exercise like that. Or I do I have another one where I do a haiku. Haiku is 17 syllables, right. And we base it on a childhood memory. So I say to everyone, I don't say, Hey, everyone, you're going to have to come up with a haiku. I first say, lock into a favorite childhood memory, sound, sight, taste, touch. And in that lock into that and think about that for a moment, close your eyes and take yourself back. And what mine was playing blocks with my brother on their front porch when it was just pouring down rain. I don't know, there's something about that moment. In time that it was it was just the two of us just hanging out, you know, in, in the world was happening. And we were just playing blocks. And so we got all sorts of and then what I do is I say okay, now now, take that sense memory and come up with your 17 syllables. And again, it's three words, five, three syllables, five syllables, three syllables. I think it does. No, it's more than that. It's a It's 77575. And, and, but what happens is, these little haikus that are 17 syllables are so incredibly emotional, and powerful. And you and some of them are humorous. And some of them, you end up, I did one where this guy told us this little haiku about the fact that he had only hugged his father once. And it's amazing. It's a great exercise, because it points to how something so simple can be so powerful. And you alluded to this in terms of your was it the Unity statement? You said? Yeah, the Unity statement, it's not a it's not a paragraph, right? It's one sentence. And that one sentence is meant and made conceptualized, to connect your audience with your with your product or your company. And so that's a lot of what I'm doing in my, in my workshops, and my seminars, is working with folks to realize that you don't have to write a whole, you know, a whole rant about something. Six words 17 syllables can serve the purpose and very incredibly, you know, when it comes to stories, yeah, actually, and so I completely forgot about six word stories until you you said that when I was first getting into copywriting, I, I found a subreddit, that is just six word stories. And that is everything people post and you get lost in there. Because you're just you're it's story after story, and you're just like, you're just eating them up. Right. But once you start unpacking that, like it becomes a copywriting skill where you can actually run this exercise of how can I tell the story, get the message across in the fewest words possible. And so evoke that emotion. And so, I mean, awesome, practical tip. Something I'd like to go a little deeper here. On the Ghost Ghost Stories and urban legends. What is it about, about the stories that hooks people that because I mean, there might be something here that we can actually pull in right to how we're marketing. I'm just, I'm fascinated by the idea that like, these are stories that people love are like layers, there's Okay, there are a couple things, right. Number one, there is you're you're playing around, you're exploring the unknown. And one of the things I do with with the younger kids to say for instance, first and fifth grade, is when I when I because I go in, and I tell a ghost story. And you know, it's relatively short, but I tell a ghost story. And, and after I tell the ghost story, or any story, I didn't deconstruct that story. And of course, I don't use the word deconstruct with fifth graders. But But I deconstruct the story. And one of the things I talk about is okay, is a is a ghost story, scarier at night, or a day during the day? And of course, the kids, you know, oh, at night at night, of course. And I said, Well, we queue Well, why is that? Well, because because you can't see you can't you know, it's dark out, you can't see past your hand, you can't see past your, you know, past a certain point. Exactly. And I think that really sort of wraps up why ghost stories and, and urban legends have a viral facet to them as well, is because they deal with the unknown in a way that it taps into our primal fears. You know, you know, there's all sorts of clickbait and, you know, all sorts of ways of getting people to click on something. And fear. I mean, across the internet, I think that, you know, it's common knowledge, that negativity, gets people riled up, it gets them to glom on to something much, much more zealously than they would if, if it's just positive, right. And so a lot of what, you know, the big companies, they're, they're pushing negativity. And so that's not to say that we have to be negative, but we can use elements of that. Right. And there's a really interesting occurrence. And I know about it with regard to urban legends. So urban legends are their legends, right? And we, we all sort of know that there's, there may be a small kernel of truth, but for the most part, they're, they're not true. You know, the guy who was on the car, and you know, he drove out into Park and he was on the car the whole way, and then, you know, tripped him or what I mean, but But it's interesting because they've tracked various urban legends. And they've realized that there are urban legends in the United States. And there's a version in Japan and a version in Australia and ever wasn't in Brazil, right? And there is no, there's no continuum between those, the people who came up with the urban legends did not hear the urban legend from Japan and make and revise it for the US. And so what what I think that that shows us or tells us is that, again, these are going to base base fears or base needs or base issues. And so, I mean, you know, there's the classic Shakespeare says that there are seven stories, and you go seven stories. And when you start to analyze those as the hero's journey, there's the, you know, the boy meets girl loses their seven stories. And so you can use the same template, when you're creating a story, again, whether whether it's a founders journey, or an origin story, or if you're speaking to clients or speaking to investors, you can come up with something that taps into a common experience or common knowledge with the group or person that you're actually telling the story to. And so I think, using a ghost story, and an urban legend, as a template, is it's a great resource, because they work so well. And so does that sort of answer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because I think it, it pulls that right. People know what generally what to expect from the story. They know what that next, like kind of phase of the journey in this story is going to be one of the reasons why the hero's journey is so, so valuable, because if you can position your client, right, as they're coming in, position them as the hero, and you're the guide, and now you're walking them through they know. Like they know what to expect from that next step. And so when it comes time to feel the success of finding your product, and that's like the, you know, what brings them out of the darkness, right? Here's the trick, right? Just as a, as a great comedian, right? Comedians are famous for setting something up, and then flipping it right at the end, right. And that is what really makes a great comedian. Great, as opposed to just good or mediocre. And so I would challenge your listeners to as your because again, let's step a step back objectively. Anytime you're going to tell a story. Ideally, you want to have thought through the beats of that story before you embark on that story. So if you're going to, if you're going to give a speech, and you're going to start off with a story, or use a story in that you want to, you want to consider the beats, and how best to tailor that story to the audience that you're speaking with. And same thing in a sales call. If you're going out and you're working on selling product or service, you want to have your story down. Now, you may tailor something on the fly, based on that specific business or the location where they are, how many you know, how many of your product they're going to need, etc. But your basic story you want to have thought out and have the beats down and have practiced, right. So as you go in, you can you can take that story, and use story structure to your advantage. Just like Chris was saying, you can create a hero's journey with your clients as the hero and you as you know, or you as the hero and then being saved. And but come up with that. But figure out an interesting twist that may not follow logically or continuously, so that you can surprise your listener, client or vendor with what you're what you're imparting. Right almost like a pattern interrupt, right? They know what what to expect, but you're hitting them with something that now forces it to be more memorable. Yeah, I love that idea. Just for anyone who's, who is listening. My degree was in English with a focus on creative writing. So this is okay, I'm loving all this about about stories. But I also want to talk about AI, and how we can use that to help with storytelling, how we can help us in our businesses. I was not like under under cutting this at all. Like this was one of the best books that I've read for getting started using AI changing way, Chris, I've used it. Yeah, I mean, I've read hundreds of articles at this point, watch videos, I've used the tool. I've applied it in various ways in businesses and and then I read your book and I got so much time. And so, so I'd love to talk to you, right. First, the number of pop culture references in this book just kept me very interested. And so I'm going to use the reference to Skynet, right? We're fortunately not there yet. Not Yeah, we get there at some point. Right? I say please, and thank you, chat GPT I was just, I love it. But, but I would love to know, how are you using it for like enhanced storytime? Okay, so let me first of all say that, you know, full disclosure, I am not a programmer, I am not a tech head. I, you know, look, I've been in the film and TV business for many years, I understand technology, I've dealt with a lot of special effects, and cameras and everything. But I am not a get in and figure out how this is going to work and the mechanism of it. And so when I wrote this book, Chris, I approached it from a storyteller standpoint, and in the book is written through the lens of my storytelling journey. And so when, you know, I hate it when I open a book, and it just starts talking in technical terms. And I feel like first of all, I feel like an idiot. Second of all, I'm playing catch up. And I get tired of flipping back and forth to glossary or going online and trying to find a glossary if there's no glossary in the book. And so what I wanted to do was create a book that folks can sit down, and just read and have fun with and learn about AI in general, and chat GPT in specific, because if right now, there is a lot of anxiety, a ton of anxiety, and the media isn't helping, I mean, you know, they're selling, they're selling dishwashing detergent, whatever, but, but they're not helping, and everyone needs to take a deep breath. Yes, this is moving at an incredible pace. I mean, I think the last count was 170 million people have signed up for tat GPT. But and we're all anxious. Now, some of us are anxious, because we're excited. And I tend to be in that the majority of the time in that in that viewpoint of chat, GPT and AI. But some folks are anxious with dread. Because they don't feel comfortable with this technology. They don't know what it all means. They're afraid that it's going to eliminate their job like that. And so what I did was I, as I started writing this book, I thought I tried to put myself in the position of sort of both of those folks, you know, the people who are anxious because they're doom and gloom, you know, and they're hearing Oh, it's gonna take your job, it's gonna ruin the, you know, Skynet, it's gonna it's, you know, next thing, you won't be able to get in the pod, you know, pod bay door from 2001 Space Odyssey. And so, I and then the other thing was, when I read something, if it's dry, I mean, it's a, it's a chore, it's a labor. And so what I did was I, I wrote this with the help of an actually, you know, I mean, just so this is my book, for those of you who are listening, my book has a little, has a little guy on the front, he's, he's a robot. And my daughter actually named him Chad GPT. Right. So I like to say now that I have Chad GPT helped me. And so I've coined the term AI enhanced storytelling, because the ideas in his book are mine. The approach is mine, chapter four, where I liken the journey of exploring through chat GPT, and AI through the lens of Alice in Wonderland, and I make comparisons about the Cheshire Cat and the Mad Hatter and the Red Queen. Those are all mine. And now, I have to say that I would ask chat GPT chat GPT for some pop culture references. And I would say hey, what pop cultural references can I put in this paragraph for this chapter that are going to help make this more interesting. And it would help me pepper everything with pop culture references, everything from Harry Potter and Lady Gaga to you know, Skynet and the Avengers. And, and so, what I did was I tried to think of this from Hey, people, the people who really want to learn about this, they don't want they don't want to learn about it from a technical standpoint, they want it to be fun. They want to know how they can use it in their life, to increase their own creativity, streamline their workplace, their workplace productivity. And so I made it fun and interesting and entertaining, as well as informative. And again, I put in like almost every page has a couple of prompts. And again, I tried to make the prompts fun and funny and humorous, so that you're not reading a bunch of, you know, dry prompts. I mean, who anyone can anyone can write a book like that. And so Oh, I love the fact that, that you really enjoyed it. In fact, one of my favorite reviews on Amazon was from, from a guy. And he said, I love because this book seems like it was written for by a human for a human. And even though it was aI enhanced, it was it was written by a human for humans who want to learn about this incredible technology. Right? So, sure, a couple of things I just wanna throw in there. With the prompt with the prompts that you you add in my favorite part was that it how much it caused me to brainstorm other ways I could tweak that prompt in order to get my specific desired end result. And so it was just just having something in front of me to get me thinking of other ways I can use this tool, I was substantial, I just stopped there. And one of the one of the my philosophies of teaching or leading is via the Socratic method. And so what I wanted to do in the book was give examples, but instead of giving a finite example of okay, here, you can type in this prompt and learn it will generate this answer. I wanted to play around. And so this book is really sort of, it's really sort of a playground for the mind, and for the approach to chat GPT. So I love that you picked up on, on that ability to take a prompt. And I very often say, hey, you know, if you're a graphic designer, you can type in this prompt, but if you're if you're not a graphic designer, then you know, put in whatever you are, because people Yes, people would think about that. But it helps to, it helps to be prompted as you're reading something, because it helps you think outside the box, just as you're using this amazing technology to think outside the box. So well. Yeah. And I think I think it resonated so much with me, because my entire approach to leadership, it's the dynamic leadership model, right? Isn't this is how you do this. This, it's more this is how you can approach this is how you figure out the rest on your own. Yes. So yeah, very much like that. Let's, let's go into there was one, I mean, there were tons of sections to cover. But the I really liked one of the ideas, he talked about how you can create growth plans for your team, right? Instead of using using AI. I'd love to hear more about like the concept of that, because I do think a lot of leaders kind of struggle where, you know, I might be the company founder, but I don't know a ton about marketing, I don't know how to help them actually level up their skills. So, you know, I find that one of the biggest values benefits from of chat GPT is its ability to help me brainstorm. So I'm working with some career tech schools, and we're coming up with chat CPT programs and programs in AI enhanced storytelling. And they said to me, we love your approach to storytelling. Can you create a program storytelling for trainers? And I said, Absolutely. It's done, considered done. And we finished up the Zoom call. And I said, Oh, my gosh, I don't know anything about trainers. And that's but but I said, Oh my gosh, what do I know about trainers I know about storytelling. So I Dovan and harnessed Chad GPT. And I typed in, you know, what would a course or workshop look like storytelling for trainers. And it started coming up with all this information. And now I was able to take a deep deep dive in a very short amount of time to learn about this and discover what would apply and what wouldn't, I mean, it came up with some amazing suggestions, but also came up with some real real stinkers. Right. And so that's what ultimately, you're your listeners are doing is they want to take this technology and use it as a tool, right? Chad, CPT and AI are simply tools just like a calculator, or a high end, you know, engineering computer program is for a mathematician or engineer. Those folks can't create a SpaceX rocket with a pencil and a pad of paper. They need tools like a computer or a calculator that can help them solve equations, formulas and problems on a really high level. And so for me, chat GPT is doing the same thing from a creative standpoint, on the table able to tend to type in a prompt, hit generate, and then all of a sudden, I've got I've got the knowledge of 10 or 15 other people in a room of being able to think outside the box. So when you talk about the, you know, the portion that I talked about, you know, growth model or growth possibilities. I mean, basically, you can type in, hey, tell me how I can interact with my man Gers or my, my factory floor workers. And you can get a sense of the way that sort of common practices best practices based on all the billions and billions of pages in text that that chat GPT has assimilated in its collective memory. And so it's not just constrained to a growth model or a growth plan. You know, you can say, for instance, you're an entrepreneur, and you're doing a startup and you've come up with a product. And you think, you know, I'd love to figure out if there are other ways that I can use this product, go to Chad GPT, and type in a basic description of your product, and then unleash it, and let it tell you what the possibilities are. And then you can take a deeper dive on, you know, on this road, or that road or that path, and really dive in and figure out the possibilities. And because that's really, that's really the coolest thing, from my standpoint, as as a storyteller and creator. Now, I mean, you can get into content creation. And when you do buy experiences, the better the prompt, the better response, you're gonna get back. But I've never once gotten a prompt back that I just said, you know, what, okay, this is perfect. Because I'm an individual, I have certain things that are based on my personality, my sense of humor, my approach, I I like to use words playfully, the way I structure words and sentences sometimes is different than, than other writers. And so, chat GPT is not me, and it can't be me. And so, you know, there's, there's a, there's a fear among a lot of folks that the chat GPT is just going to turn us all into robots. And that everything we create is just going to turn into mush, all our communication is just going to be good. And sure, if we all use the same crappy prompt, to put out an email or Twitter post or a blog post, then yes, if I, if I use a prompt, and then I hand it off to you, Chris, and use the same prompt, even if it's a different subject, the writing is going to be similar, it's going to be very, very similar. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to take that prompt, and I'm going to fuse part of my personality, I'm going to say, hey, write with a sense of humor, and use Oh use and pop culture references. Whereas you may say, you know, what, write with sarcasm, or write with, you know, make it a parody. And, and don't use any pop culture references whatsoever. You know, it's, it's all based on our personalities. And so, for me, this tool, this technology can really heighten my creativity, my individualism, as well as yours. And, and so that is the beauty of Chad GPT. And that's what I feel like. I feel like sometimes I feel like an evangelist going out. Ai enhanced storytelling is the way and but it the folks who are thinking about oh, it's, you know, it's going to reduce our communication so much, they're not thinking about how creative they can get with the input and output, you know, I mean, just like computers garbage in, garbage out. So right. So that's the beauty for me, for entrepreneurs, business owners, is the ability to harness this, and infuse the generated responses with the personality of the founder, or the owner, or the product itself, or even the customers or clients because you can pepper the wishes and needs and desires of your clients into your responses. And it's it's magical, right? Yeah, I like one of the other most interesting perspectives that I've seen on just how you how you view AI, rather than looking at it as artificial intelligence, using it as intelligence, augmentation, knowing that you as the human are still the one doing the inputs and figuring this out. But you're leveraging this as a tool, right? So like that calculator in order to, to get whatever result you're after. So I love everything you just said was like, Yes, we are. Ultimately, we as the humans, are the critical thinkers. And so it's up to us to synthesize the information that we're getting that's generated from chat GPT, for instance, you know, I would very often type in okay, you know, whatever section I was working on, I type it in and say, Hey, generate, you know, 300 words, whatever, with some humor and some pop culture references, and it would come back and I would read it, and I would go, No, this is this isn't right at all. But yet, chat GPT thought it was right. And I would say no, no, and I would, you know, I would revise the prompt, and I might have to do that two or three or four, eight or 10 times sometimes. And so ultimately, we We as humans are the keepers of that critical mind that critical thought. And the objectivity in terms of whatever is being spit out if it works within what we're creating. And that's and really, I mean, that's the most important thing, is it? Are we using this to heighten our ideas and concepts and inventions and in businesses? Yeah. This has been a fascinating conversation, I've got a good, three more questions for you. First, what book besides besides one you've written? Because I'm already recommending that for you? But what book would you recommend everyone? With regard to chat CPT, or just pillars I just had the material, how long it's going to be Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett is an amazing book. And in some way, it's actually it's about cathedral building in the 1200s 1400s. It's, it's a eight or 900 page book, but it's a fantastic book. And it has it has some similarities to to what's going on with this new technology, actually. All right, we'll have to check that out. Next one, what's, what's next, I actually had a conversation with a friend of mine this morning. And I can't set the scene too much. But basically, I'm creating courses and programs for this career tech school where I grew up in Oklahoma. And we're going to take those programs, and use those as a template for, for some business opportunities, and work on sort of fusing the education process with the business with with with a business to work on a pipeline for students learning about Chad CPT, and how to integrate it into business science story. Awesome, I'm excited to see where that goes. Where can people@explained.ai Ai, that's my website, and you can purchase a copy of my book, it'll take you right to Amazon. If you want to get in touch with me to set up a consultation or talk about a workshop or a webinar, you can go all the way down to the bottom, contact Richard, press on that, and you can email me, and I'd love to give a challenge. I'd love to give a challenge to your to your listeners. So as you move for, in the next couple of days, I'd like for you to stop and reflect on the stories that you tell and the stories that you hear. And think about that 85% mark, and consider how much of your communication back and forth between friends and colleagues and family and, and even folks, you're just meeting how much of your communication is based in story or some sort of narrative structure. And then take that and use that as you communicate with with your team members, with employees with colleagues moving forward. That is a great challenge and something I think everyone will benefit from. Well, awesome. Richard, thank you for joining me. This has been an awesome conversation. Thanks, Chris. It's it's been fantastic. I've loved it. Yeah, we're going to plan your return trip. Right after right after we hang up here. So awesome. Take care. All right. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. And for more information on how to build effective and efficient teams through your leadership visit leading for effect.com As always deserve it